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Desegregation is against the Bible. I find my scripture for this in Genesis 9:27.

All the people of the south are in favor of segregation. And Supreme Court or no Supreme Court, we are going to maintain segregated schools down in Dixie.

But suddenly we have the fourteenth amendment that took a hundred years, brought on by the Civil War, suddenly must be complied with. Equal treatment under the law. And this was a resistance. They are not going to get equal treatment.

I think we were not really quite prepared for the extent to which the south would resist the implementation of the Brown decision. In fact, the shutting down of the NAACP in Alabama, the resistance evidenced in places like Virginia and Arkansas, the legislative investigations committees of Florida and in other states really frightened us.

What's brought about these actions, I feel, is that lawless elements outside the campus set themselves over and above the law. Their actions brought great discredit to our nation.

You can't or maybe you can override prejudice overnight, but the Emancipation Proclamation was issued in 1863, ninety-odd years ago. I believe in gradualism. I also believe that ninety-odd years is pretty gradual.

I personally believe if you try to go too far too fast in laws in this delicate field that has involved the emotions of so many millions of Americans, you are making a mistake. I believe we have got to have laws that go along with education and understanding, and I believe if you go beyond that at any one time, you cause trouble rather than benefit.

This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy.

I can't imagine any set of circumstances that would ever induce me to send Federal troops into a Federal court and into any area to enforce the orders of a Federal court, because I believe that common sense of America will never require it.

We have a very enlightened group of people in Arkansas, and they have accepted everything else. They've accepted bus integration without any fanfare, and they will take the school integration as another going to school.

The black children were not getting a chance and they needed it, they needed it more than anyone, and we were very strongly in favor of that and could see that integration would improve that. But we did, at that stage, have fears, and they were, I guess, just naturally more emotional fears. So we needed some help from the officials, the state officials, the county, the city officials, and primarily from Governor Faubus, as to what he told the people, whether it was the law or not.

I have therefore in accordance with the solemn responsibility and the oath of my office taken the following actions. Units of the National Guard have been and are now being mobilized with the mission to maintain or restore the peace and good order of this community. Advanced units are already on duty on the grounds of Central High School.

You could cut it with a knife, the tension. Outside the school were these people who had come in from other parts of the state, other states. There were license plates from all the other states that were there with people who had come in and were outside our school.

It has to be the most frightening thing, I mean, because she had a crowd of white people behind her threatening to kill her. She had nobody, I mean, there was not a black face in sight, anywhere. Nobody that she could turn to as a friend except this woman came out of the crowd and guided her through the mob and on to the bus and got her home safely.

Well, we consider this case important as one of the segregation cases, but in addition to the fact that this one involves the appearance of the National Guard on the scene, and for the first time in any of our cases, it's the action of the governor that eventually will have to be brought into trial. [Interviewer: Then you see it as a state / federal conflict of authority.] Oh I don't think there's any question about that.

President Eisenhower's position was that he was the president of all the people. He felt that his role was to talk to the moderates throughout the country, including the Southern states. He felt that, and was told by many advisors, that Governor Faubus could be reasoned with, and an amicable solution could be found in the Little Rock crisis.

The President thought that he had persuaded Governor Faubus to go back and allow the black children to enter the high school peaceably. And it was quite a surprise to him — he felt let down — when Governor Faubus decided against allowing the black children to enter the high school.

We entered the side of the building. Thousands of people out front. And we were entering the side, and I could just get a glimpse of this group, and then the car — I could hear on the car radio, I could hear that there was a mob. And I knew what a mob meant, and I knew that the sounds that came from the crowd were very angry. So, we entered the side of the building very, very fast.

The three of us represented the black press, that was all. And we were on the mall in front of the school, and the word got to the crowd outside that "the niggers are in the school." Then they said to us, "You come out here as a decoy, and let the other people slip them into the side of this building." So, I said, "Hell, no." Like that, you see.

Somebody had a brick in his hand, and instead of throwing the brick, because he was too close, he hit Alex Wilson up the side of his head with this brick. Of course, Wilson was more than six feet tall, an ex-Marine. And he went down like a tree.

The mob was getting past the wooden sawhorses, because the police would no longer fight their own in order to keep — to protect us. And so, someone made a suggestion that if they allowed the mob to hang one kid, they could then get the rest out. And a gentleman, whom I believe to be the Assistant Chief of Police said, "How you going to choose? You going to let them draw straws?" He said, "I'll get them out." And we were taken to the basement of this place, and we were put into two cars, grayish, blue colored Fords. And the man instructed them, he said, "Once you start driving, do not stop."

An extreme situation has been created in Little Rock. This challenge must be met, and with such measures as will preserve for the people as a whole their lawfully protected rights... If resistance to the Federal Court order ceases at once, the further presence of federal troops will be unnecessary, and that blot upon the fair name and high honor of our nation in the world will be removed... Mob rule cannot be allowed to override the decisions of our courts.

My fellow citizens, we are now an occupied territory... In the name of God, whom we all revere, in the name of liberty we hold so dear, in the name of decency, which we all cherish, what is happening in America?

When we got into the Jeep — into the station wagon, rather, and the convoy that went from Mrs. Bates's house to school had had a Jeep in front, a Jeep behind, and they both had machine gun mounts. And then the whole school was ringed with the paratroopers and helicopters hovering around. And we marched up the steps with this circle of soldiers with bayonets drawn. I'd figured that we had really gone into school that day. And walking up the steps that day was probably one of the biggest feelings I've ever had. I figured I'd finally cracked it.

And there was a feeling of pride and hope, that, yes, this is the United States, yes, there is a reason I salute the flag. And it's going to be okay. You know, if these guys just go with us the first time, it's going to be okay. The troops did not, however, mean the end of harassment. It meant the declaration of war.

When we got in the school, they then assigned us an individual soldier to walk us from class to class. He waited outside the classroom, and every time the bell rang and classes changed, he would walk us. We'd have our personal guard walking us to the next class.

The troops were wonderful. You know, there was some fear that they were dating the girls in high school. I don't care what they were doing. They were wonderful. But they couldn't be with us everywhere. They couldn't be with us, for example, in the ladies' bathroom. They couldn't be with us in gym. You'd be walking out to the volleyball court and someone would break a bottle and trip you on the ball. I have scars on my right knee from that.

Of course, we couldn't have a normal school. What we had to have is close to normal as possible. And you couldn't follow every student around with a guard. You know, the stories were that the male guards would go into the restrooms with the female black students, and you couldn't do things like that. And you couldn't sit with them at the cafeteria. There wouldn't be any integration if you did that. So, I'm proud at what we did and what we didn't do.

[Do you think you could get used to going to school with colored children?]
Yes, sir, I think so. I mean, if I'm going to have to do it, I'm going to have to get used to it.
[Well, now, what about this? Do you think that the trouble is with the students here in the high school and in the schools of Little Rock? Or is it with the parents? Or is it with outsiders? Or where is the trouble?]
I think it's the parents. I mean, I saw it, you know, all these parents out here and the man kicking that negro and everything.
[And you don't sympathize with that sort of action at all?]
No, sir, I don't.

Well, I think it was just downright un-American. I think it was the most terrible thing that has ever been seen in America. I mean, yeah, I'm guessing ...(inaudible) patriotic or something like that, but I always thought that all men were created equal.

And I began to change from being somebody who was — I considered myself a moderate to, if I had my way, would have said, "Let's don't integrate, because it's the state's right to decide," to someone who felt a real sense of compassion for these students, and felt like they deserved something that I had. And I also developed a real dislike for the people that were out there that were causing the problems. It was very unsettling to me.

I never had anything to do with any until he came here. They'd never lived, what you'd say, close enough to us, so I was just never around them really.
[Isn't that probably what makes it difficult, when you've lived 17 years of your life, and then you start doing something different, all of a sudden?]
Well, I think, like, if a Spanish or a Chinese person came here, it wouldn't be hard to get along with them. It's just that the negroes are, what you might say, more different to us than a Spanish person might be.

You know, I worried about silly things like keeping my saddle shoes straight, what am I going to wear today? The things that a 15 year old girl does worry about. But also, which part of the hall to walk in that's the safest? Who's going to hit me with what? Is it going to be hot soup today? Is it going to be so greasy that it ruins the dress my grandmother made for me? I mean, how is this day going to go?

And then, you know, you get out and you get to the car, and then we joke, we'd kind of play with each other. And your stomach would go back into its seat. But then again, we'd get to the head of the NAACP, Daisy Bates's house, and we'd have to face press conference.

Very well. The military authorities have been very nice to the children, as well as the school board and the city police.

My name is Gloria Ray. I am thankful for having a chance to fulfill my educational desires, and for being a citizen in a country where the federal government respects and protects the rights of all its people.

My name is Terrence Roberts and I'm a Seventh Day Adventist, and I would like to say that I know that communists enjoy taking advantage of situations such as these to twist the minds of peoples of the world. But I am thankful that in America their actions are being foiled through the efforts of many democratic-minded citizens.

For a couple of weeks, there had been a number of white kids following us. A series of hassles, continuous, calling us niggers. "Nigger, nigger, nigger," one right after the other. And Minnie was — Minnijean Brown was in the lunch line with me. And I was in front of Minnie, and Minnie was behind me. And there was this white kid — fella — who was much shorter than Minnie — Minnie was about five foot ten. And this fella couldn't have been more than five-five, five-four. And he reminded me of a small dog, yelping at somebody's leg. And Minnie had just picked up her chili.

I could just see her little head click. She consciously said to herself, "No, Minnijean, if you do this, you know you won't be here." But then, this was the time of the year when we all didn't want to be there.

And before I could even say, "You know, Minnie, why don't you tell him to shut up?" Minnie had taken this chili, dumped it on this dude's head. It was just absolute silence in the place. And then the help — all black — broke into applause. And the white kids — the other white kids there — didn't know what to do. It was the first time that anybody, I'm sure, had seen somebody black retaliate in that sense.

When Minnie Jean was kicked out of school following the chili incident, maybe 15, 20 students brought cards and gave them out that said, "One down, eight to go." When school was out in May, they still hadn't given up the fight. They came out with a two-colored card that said, "Ike go home Liberation Day May 29, 1958," which was graduation day. They were still fighting the battle even then.

We still didn't know whether some outsiders might roll in from some other states and firebomb the place. So, we were a little nervous about it, as was Ernest, and he stood around and joked with the students. We were all joking together there, waiting to process in. And I do remember that as the students' names were called, and they get up and go across the platform and receive their diploma, that I really held my breath when Ernest's name was called.

There were a lot of claps for the students. You know, they talked about who had received scholarships, who was an honor student and all that as they called their names up. When they called my name, there was nothing. Just a name. And there was this eerie silence. Nobody clapped. But I figured they didn't have to, because after I got that diploma, that was it. I had accomplished what I had come there for.

Well, from the beginning it wasn't quite what we expected, but adding all things together and putting all the sides together, I think it's turned out to be — well, I would say an interesting year. I guess that would be an understatement, but when you put all the sides together, we've had some nice times as well as some rough times. And I think, all in all, it's worked out rather nicely.

By the time school had ended, I had sort of settled into myself. And I could have gone on for the next five years — it didn't matter anymore. I was past feeling. I was into just that kind of numb pain where you say, "Hey, I can make it. Do whatever you'd like, and it just doesn't matter anymore."

But I came home, and, by myself, I walked to the backyard, and I burned my books. And I burned everything that I could burn. And I just stood there crying, looking into the fire, and wondering whether I would go back, but not wanting to go back.

There will be no enforced integration in Virginia. I have the highest respect for the President of the United States. If troops are sent into Virginia, they will patrol empty school houses.

Can we honestly say that it doesn't affect our security and the fight for peace when negroes and others are denied their full constitutional rights?

When the Meredith case was filed, it coincided with the Freedom Riders' arrival in Mississippi, which, of course, was not a good context in which to bring that suit. But those were historical developments which we could not control because it was a genuine revolution on the part of black people.

[What made you decide on Ole Miss?]
Well, I thought that I should get an education in my own state. And, of course, Ole Miss, to my knowledge, is the best university in the state. And also, it's the only school that offers the courses that I'm particularly interested in.
[You say you were interested in going to the University of Mississippi even as a boy. Were you aware at that time that negroes did not go to the University of Mississippi?]
Well, I've been aware for a long time of the, so-called, place for the negro. Yes, I've been aware.
[Therefore, you've wanted to overcome this barrier since you were a boy?]
That's right.

I think that the facade that he would present to the public was one that was somewhat cold, somewhat cocky. But it was necessary to do that in order to protect himself. Because, after all, he was a human being with feelings, with fear.

Friends, I'm a Mississippi segregationist and I am proud of it.

We must eliminate the cowards from our front lines... You did not elect me governor of Mississippi to bargain your heritage away in a smoke-filled hotel room.

The governor took a very active role in talking about the threats that the state would make on its blacks who would try to enter the school. It was an effort to instill fear in the hearts of blacks, and it was also an effort, and a very successful one, to arouse fear and a kind of frenzy in the white community to fight back.

It was so unreal for Mississippi to argue and for the judge to hold that there was no policy of segregation at the University of Mississippi. Everyone in the state of Mississippi, and I am sure almost everyone in the entire country, knew that there was segregation in the state of Mississippi. And for the university to assert that there was no segregation, and for the court to find that there was no segregation, was just like a land of Fantasia.

It was always clear as crystal, and I personally made a commitment, knowing the President would back it up, to the fifth circuit sitting on bunk, all nine of them. That whatever force was necessary to make their order effective would be applied.

I have made my position in this matter crystal clear. I have said in every county in Mississippi that no school in our state will be integrated while I am your governor... I now call on every public official, and every private citizen of our great state to join with me in refusing, in every legal and every constitutional way, and every way, every matter available, my friends, to submit to illegal usurpation of power by the Kennedy administration.

Well, none of the students — and I think I speak for all of them — want the school closed. And I think if it is closed, it would be too much pressure on Mr. Barnett, and he would have to open it within a day or two anyway.
[Do you think if the school had to be closed it would affect the Rebel's, the football team?]
Yes, that's one bad thing about it. And all our students are really looking forward to all the football games, and then if the school is closed, we want the ball games played anyway.

The doctrine is that a state may interpose itself between the national government and some action that is thought to be imposed upon the state, or some of its subdivisions, by the federal government. The supremacy clause, which provides and in case of a conflict between the nation and the states, the nation, the law of the nation prevails, makes hash of the doctrine of interposition. And any lawyer worth his salt knows that. And Barnett was a lawyer who made a good living — still making a good living — out of the law, and he knew better than that.

I took an oath when I inaugurated governor of this state to uphold and to try to maintain and perpetuate the laws of Mississippi... Gentlemen, my conscience is clear. I'm abiding by the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of Mississippi, and the laws of the state of Mississippi.

I got to admit, I was surprised when I got to the door of the regent's office, and when the door opened, there was, on the threshold, was the governor of the state of Mississippi there blocking the door. I got to say to you that I didn't anticipate that. And he had a proclamation, and he read it, in which the end line was, "I refuse to register you under the authority of the laws of the state of Mississippi." So, we left.

If the federal government had told Governor Barnett, "We're coming in and we're going to maintain order, and we're going to register Meredith," they would have had my complete respect and cooperation. They wouldn't do that. And by the same token, the governor was so obsessed with the idea of maintaining our way of life, that that was the ultimate objective. And with those two points of view, and with the two political leaders trying to make each other look as good as they could, the situation just got out of hand.

We have had to put throughout — not merely the students, but all kinds of people pouring in, in cars, in order to prevent Meredith from being admitted to Ole Miss. One, now, has to remember also that that was the squirrel hunting season in Mississippi, so there were literally hundreds, thousands, of guns. Every pick up truck had a couple of guns in it, and so the situation was really very dangerous.

I love Mississippi. I love her people... our customs. I love and I respect our heritage.

Sunday evening when I flew down in the government plane to the airstrip at the University of Mississippi. And we had marshals already down there. We had about four or 500 Marshals sworn in from the prison guards, from the border patrol, form the US Marshals service, from any other place we could find reasonably trained law enforcement officers. And they were, themselves, inert to the students who were returning from a football weekend. And we had no place to sort of hide the marshals. We were around the Lyceum building, which was the center of the campus, and, unbeknownst to us, a sort of a tradition and a place of great honor.

Students came and, of course, they saw the marshals. I know I got angry when I saw the marshals. It just seemed a betrayal. It made me mad. You know, why are these people here when we haven't done anything, and people are behaving themselves? And, you know, what is going on? And I caught myself really with some of these feelings.

Americans are free, in short, to disagree with the law, but not to disobey it. For any government of laws, and not of man, no man, however prominent or powerful, and no mob, however unruly or boisterous, is entitled to defy a court of law. The eyes of the nation and all the world are upon you and upon all of us.

There was one freshman girl that had been this little flower of Southern gentility when I had met her. And she came up to me, and her face was absolutely contorted, and I almost didn't recognize her. And she was absolutely furious, because she had picked up a brick and thrown it at a marshal, and it had only hit him in the head and scratched him, and she had not put his eye out.

Of course the President's going to win in the end. He's got the whole armed forces of the United States. He can call in the Air Force, he can bring Navy ships up the Mississippi River, he can call out the Army as he did, he can drop parachuters in. I suppose he could shoot missiles at Oxford, Mississippi. So, he's going to win at the end.

I recall driving to the campus, and I guess when I got to the circle was when I really saw the impact of the riot from the previous evening. I reported to my office — as I recall it, there weren't very many of the staff there. Many of them were too afraid to come to the campus on Monday. And later, James Meredith came to my private office, and I accommodated the registration there.